The Gift of Life

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Welcome back to Conversations with Karen

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and Kat,

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the podcast where we connect with powerful

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changemakers,

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visionaries and everyday heroes who are

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shaping culture and community.

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Today, we are joined by Bobby Howard,

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a former NFL player and a Sigma with

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Tampa based Buccaneers.

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Besides being a great man of Sigma,

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Bobby's life changed when severe kidney

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disease led to a life-changing kidney

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transplant.

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The second chance at life became his call

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to action.

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Bobby now works to increase awareness of

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organ, eye, and tissue donation,

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particularly in multicultural communities

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while serving in leadership roles with

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organizations across the country.

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Bobby Howard, Brad.

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Welcome to Conversations with Karen and

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Kat.

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Good evening.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm so excited to be a part of

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your program.

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Thank you.

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We are so excited to have you as

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well.

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When we read the information about the

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work that you do,

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I was so excited to talk to you

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as being an organ transplant recipient.

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But to back that up a little bit,

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As a professional athlete,

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you were so used to,

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and your body was your instrument and your

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tool,

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and you were accustomed to being at your

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peak strength and just being,

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your body was your tool.

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What was it like to suddenly face this

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health challenge?

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Did you feel like your body was betraying

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you when this was going on?

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Well, that's a great question.

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I didn't feel that my body was betraying

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me.

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I was shocked because I was so young.

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And I thought that dialysis and kidney

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failure only affected people who were

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older.

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And, you know,

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just a little background about me.

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You know, I'm the youngest of eleven.

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And being the youngest of eleven,

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of course,

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I was very close to my mom.

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There's a big age gap with my siblings

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and I.

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And I remember my mother was on dialysis

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when I was about nine or ten.

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And she got a transplant,

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but she passed away maybe about a year

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and a half after she received the

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transplant.

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So I knew a little about dialysis and

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transplants because she went through it.

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But once again, I was very young.

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So when I was diagnosed with it,

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I was shocked about it.

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How can this happen to me?

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And, you know, being in my selfish state,

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saying, like, why me?

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Why not, you know, the other tent,

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you know?

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And so I wasn't,

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didn't feel my body for tremendous shock

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that this happened to me.

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And how was I going to grow it?

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What was the most difficult part about

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receiving that diagnosis?

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The most difficult part was that I've

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truly thought in my mind that when you're

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diagnosed that you can get a transplant

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the next day.

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So I was shocked that I had to

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go on dialysis.

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I was informed about the waiting list.

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And that was the shocking part to me.

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And, you know, I just figured I said,

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you know,

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if I have to deal with this,

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I have to do my part and live

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the best life that I can.

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I want to beat it and it not

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beat me.

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So that was the attitude that I took.

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Praise God.

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I'm glad that you had that attitude.

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You take charge of it and it not

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take charge of you.

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As you started walking down this path,

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what did you learn?

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What are some of the additional

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misconceptions people have when it comes

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to dialysis and kidney donations or any

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organ donation?

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Well,

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I find the biggest myth that people have

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specifically about dialysis is that your

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life is over.

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Once you start dialysis,

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especially if you do in-center dialysis,

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that life is over,

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that you're always going to be tired,

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you're not going to be able to do

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this, you can't eat this,

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and that your life is just going to

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waste away being on dialysis.

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And that's not true.

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And I believe that if you follow the

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instructions that you are given and you

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make sure you maintain a healthy appetite,

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because a lot of things that we are

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used to eating in the black community,

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you can't have a lot of those things

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on dialysis.

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Wait a minute.

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I can't have my fried chicken and

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watermelons.

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Let me give you an example.

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When you're on dialysis,

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you can only drink thirty two ounces of

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liquid a day.

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Say that again.

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You can only have .

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So that includes your watermelon because

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that's liquid.

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So if I eat watermelon,

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that's going to take away from my water

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intake.

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And because your kidneys aren't

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functioning normally the way that they

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should, the fluid you take in,

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and a lot of people lose that,

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they lose that system of using the

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restroom to urinate.

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So that fluid has nowhere to go.

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So it stays in your body.

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So if you maintain a low impact on

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your fluid,

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that have you better results being on

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dialysis.

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Incentive.

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So you spoke a little bit about diet

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and African-Americans.

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Is there a disparity between how dialysis

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impacts persons of color,

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Black people and non-Black people?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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It's a big disparity.

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When you look at...

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High blood pressure and diabetes,

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those are the two leading causes of kidney

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failure in the Black community.

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And a lot of those,

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and let me add, lack of exercise, obesity,

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all those things fall into that category.

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So when you look at historically the diet

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of Black people,

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it's a lot of fried foods.

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And of course, with diabetes,

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a lot of folks don't take care of

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it.

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It's going to go away.

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With high blood pressure,

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I don't want to take any pills because

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it's going to have adverse effect on

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something else in my body.

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So when you do not follow those

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instructions,

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it's going to lead to either kidney

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failure, heart failure,

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or you're going to die if you don't

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do those things.

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So you were an NFL athlete in its

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prime when you had kidney failure.

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Was there a genetic component to yours?

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Because I'm sure it wasn't the way you

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were eating.

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Absolutely.

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Mine was more genetically because of my

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mother.

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and you know for example now um uh

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in my family i have another brother who's

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on dialysis i have a niece who was

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on dialysis she received a transplant have

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another niece who passed away on dialysis

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and i have a great nephew who was

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on dialysis so there is um there there

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are some studies going on and it's called

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apol one

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It's a gene that you can test to

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see for African-Americans that if you

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carry that gene,

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you're more likely to have kidney failure.

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Say it again.

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It's AP what?

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APOL-one.

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Wow.

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And that's a study?

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Yep.

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There's a lot of testing going on and

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they're in and doing research to see,

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you know,

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if you carry that gene that you are

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have the possibility of having kidney

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failure.

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So would you advise anyone listening or

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watching this program right now,

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this podcast right now?

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that has one or more family members that

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have had kidney failure,

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kidney disease to get tested for this

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gene?

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Or are we not at the point where

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you can test for the gene?

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, you can test for it.

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I would advise that.

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I would also advise following, I mean,

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making sure you do your routine physicals

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with your primary care physician every

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year,

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that you make sure that in your blood

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work, you know, that you,

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and most people don't know because they

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never look at until something happened,

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is to make sure your creatinine level is

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where it should be.

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That's a big trigger sign for kidney

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failure and your BUN.

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Those are two things that they always test

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for when they do your blood work,

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but they may not never give you a

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result because if you don't, you know,

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if your number is stable,

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there's no need to tell you, you know,

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that they don't tell you that until the

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time.

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So again, that was the,

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you're looking for the creatinine level.

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And your BUN.

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BUN.

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Now, what does that stand for?

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Because I've never heard of that.

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I'm not sure.

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Okay.

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All right.

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but it says blood urea nitrogen test

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measures so that's what that says family

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make sure y'all google that and look that

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up that's some good stuff let me ask

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you this do you know what the stats

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are like in gwinnett county and

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Well, I shouldn't say they don't do.

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I haven't found or done anything to

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specifically look at Gwinnett.

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But I can tell you that if you

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are African-American,

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you are at risk to have kidney disease.

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And I can tell you with chronic kidney

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disease,

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Georgia is probably number two or number

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three in the country with the number of

00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:41.840
people in the state with chronic kidney

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disease.

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And chronic kidney disease left untreated

00:10:46.365 --> 00:10:48.225
leads to end-stage renal disease,

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which you're going to have to either be

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on dialysis or have a transplant.

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So with those numbers being very high,

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and I think the last time that I

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looked,

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Georgia was over four hundred thousand

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people with chronic kidney disease.

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that was diagnosed.

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A lot of times when you hear about

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people passing away just unexpectedly,

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sometimes that's a cause of untreated high

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blood pressure and diabetes,

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which led to kidney failure.

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Like when you look at that B,

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you went where you had the U stood

00:11:22.864 --> 00:11:24.283
out for me because the uremic.

00:11:24.664 --> 00:11:26.625
That basically means that you have a

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urema,

00:11:27.385 --> 00:11:29.927
which is basically urine within your

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bloodstream.

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And that's not good.

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Which means your kidneys, the urine out,

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so like I said,

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it has nowhere to go.

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And that's a part

00:11:47.976 --> 00:11:49.518
or any stage of the disease because they

00:11:49.538 --> 00:11:50.457
didn't go to the hospital.

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So, Bobby,

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what were some of the symptoms that you

00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:56.681
had that alerted your doctors that you

00:11:56.701 --> 00:11:58.682
were in kidney failure or you had kidney

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disease?

00:11:59.322 --> 00:12:00.883
Well, the symptoms that I had,

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they didn't alert my doctor.

00:12:02.143 --> 00:12:03.724
Mine was what they call a treat.

00:12:03.823 --> 00:12:05.345
It came on all at once.

00:12:06.077 --> 00:12:09.802
But I remember I had very foamy urine.

00:12:10.783 --> 00:12:12.323
It was like a head of beer.

00:12:12.344 --> 00:12:13.705
When I went to the restroom,

00:12:13.905 --> 00:12:14.807
it was like a head of beer.

00:12:15.547 --> 00:12:16.168
But I didn't know,

00:12:16.227 --> 00:12:18.990
so I just kept going to the restroom.

00:12:19.191 --> 00:12:21.192
I remember I had swelling in my ankles.

00:12:22.806 --> 00:12:24.186
I would have night sweats.

00:12:24.706 --> 00:12:26.846
I would wake up at night and I'd

00:12:26.866 --> 00:12:28.206
have to get up, change seats,

00:12:28.567 --> 00:12:29.927
sleep on the other side of the bed

00:12:29.988 --> 00:12:31.447
because I had sweated so much.

00:12:32.347 --> 00:12:33.788
So when mine came on,

00:12:34.129 --> 00:12:35.729
I had those symptoms for about a week.

00:12:36.349 --> 00:12:39.610
When I went to the hospital because I

00:12:39.649 --> 00:12:40.509
said, okay, I have to go,

00:12:40.549 --> 00:12:41.431
this isn't right.

00:12:42.291 --> 00:12:43.130
And they said, well,

00:12:43.171 --> 00:12:46.072
you have kidney disease and you have to

00:12:46.111 --> 00:12:47.032
start dialysis.

00:12:47.532 --> 00:12:48.511
And I started, they said, well,

00:12:48.532 --> 00:12:49.273
did this happen?

00:12:49.293 --> 00:12:50.712
They said, oh yeah, I had that.

00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:52.941
Well, you said, oh, I had that.

00:12:53.681 --> 00:12:54.922
You know, they start naming things.

00:12:55.001 --> 00:12:55.881
I said, oh, I had that.

00:12:56.282 --> 00:12:58.001
But nobody tells you.

00:12:58.101 --> 00:12:58.802
I didn't know.

00:12:59.302 --> 00:13:01.043
So I didn't know that those were things

00:13:01.062 --> 00:13:01.863
that were wrong.

00:13:02.163 --> 00:13:03.104
Those were indicators.

00:13:03.624 --> 00:13:08.445
And there was no immediate thought process

00:13:08.465 --> 00:13:09.784
that you were linked to your mom.

00:13:10.024 --> 00:13:12.865
Like that hereditary didn't even click.

00:13:13.326 --> 00:13:13.605
Correct.

00:13:14.113 --> 00:13:14.592
Wow.

00:13:14.913 --> 00:13:15.214
And see,

00:13:15.234 --> 00:13:17.154
like my biological parents are deceased.

00:13:17.634 --> 00:13:19.556
So that's the one thing about not having

00:13:19.596 --> 00:13:19.916
that.

00:13:20.255 --> 00:13:22.177
You have to look at maybe your aunts

00:13:22.398 --> 00:13:24.239
or your uncles or something like that.

00:13:24.599 --> 00:13:26.159
You don't have that to be able to

00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:27.500
say what's going on.

00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:29.280
So what's happening to me and my siblings,

00:13:29.322 --> 00:13:30.302
I'm the youngest of eight,

00:13:31.102 --> 00:13:34.524
that now they're my markers for what's

00:13:34.543 --> 00:13:37.306
going on potentially with me and my kids.

00:13:38.102 --> 00:13:40.524
So it's very important that if you have

00:13:40.565 --> 00:13:42.986
that medical history to dive into that and

00:13:43.047 --> 00:13:44.548
really have those conversations,

00:13:44.567 --> 00:13:46.369
because I don't think we talk about it

00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:48.451
in the black community about what Big Mama

00:13:48.490 --> 00:13:52.553
had and why, you know, Papa was limping.

00:13:53.149 --> 00:13:55.831
and how so-and-so lost their toe when

00:13:55.851 --> 00:13:56.993
something was amputated.

00:13:57.293 --> 00:13:58.855
Nobody really sit down and talk about

00:13:58.894 --> 00:13:59.115
that.

00:13:59.215 --> 00:14:01.518
What do you think about that, Bobby?

00:14:02.097 --> 00:14:05.421
I'm nodding my head in agreeance because

00:14:05.461 --> 00:14:06.942
those are the things when I do go

00:14:07.082 --> 00:14:07.222
out,

00:14:07.243 --> 00:14:08.664
I don't go out in the community as

00:14:08.705 --> 00:14:09.485
much as I used to.

00:14:10.086 --> 00:14:11.267
But going out in the community,

00:14:11.287 --> 00:14:12.768
those are things that I talk about is

00:14:12.807 --> 00:14:14.568
that we don't have those kind of

00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:15.448
conversations.

00:14:15.928 --> 00:14:18.451
We don't have conversations of, you know,

00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:20.892
when someone passes away in their sleep

00:14:20.932 --> 00:14:22.832
and they're forty two years old,

00:14:23.092 --> 00:14:24.333
you shouldn't pass away in your sleep at

00:14:24.354 --> 00:14:25.075
forty two years old.

00:14:25.174 --> 00:14:25.554
Right.

00:14:25.595 --> 00:14:28.336
Something caused you to pass away.

00:14:28.876 --> 00:14:31.557
And then that that secret, not secret,

00:14:31.577 --> 00:14:34.120
but that that fear that we have of

00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.019
when someone passed away,

00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:36.280
we don't want to do an autopsy.

00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:41.081
You know, someone died due to autopsy.

00:14:41.101 --> 00:14:43.364
You can find out and have discussions with

00:14:43.384 --> 00:14:46.725
your family about what happened because

00:14:46.765 --> 00:14:49.087
that may be something hereditary that you

00:14:49.128 --> 00:14:52.129
can save one of your children and yourself

00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:53.691
if your family perhaps.

00:14:54.171 --> 00:14:57.273
Having those discussions about health care

00:14:57.614 --> 00:14:58.695
is very important.

00:14:58.774 --> 00:15:00.296
We have to do a better job.

00:15:00.975 --> 00:15:04.359
absolutely so bobby how long were you on

00:15:04.438 --> 00:15:09.682
dialysis um before you got your transplant

00:15:10.224 --> 00:15:13.966
and how did you get moved um did

00:15:13.986 --> 00:15:15.847
you get moved up on the transplant list

00:15:16.207 --> 00:15:18.149
to be able to get your transplant when

00:15:18.169 --> 00:15:20.932
you did great question i was on dialysis

00:15:20.971 --> 00:15:24.215
for a little over seven months which back

00:15:24.254 --> 00:15:25.655
then was extremely fast

00:15:27.190 --> 00:15:29.010
And let me clarify,

00:15:29.030 --> 00:15:30.091
when you say a list,

00:15:30.491 --> 00:15:32.232
don't really think of it as a list.

00:15:32.312 --> 00:15:34.333
Think of it as a pool of names

00:15:34.374 --> 00:15:36.475
because chronologically it doesn't go.

00:15:37.034 --> 00:15:40.496
Bobby was listed on July first and Karen

00:15:40.537 --> 00:15:43.418
was July second and Kat was July third.

00:15:43.817 --> 00:15:44.839
And then that's the order.

00:15:45.438 --> 00:15:46.000
Take that out.

00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:47.900
Can you talk about the priority?

00:15:49.601 --> 00:15:50.123
It's really,

00:15:50.562 --> 00:15:52.644
I don't want to say it's a priority.

00:15:52.705 --> 00:15:54.166
For kidneys, it's not a priority.

00:15:54.225 --> 00:15:55.167
For other organs,

00:15:55.447 --> 00:15:56.748
there are priorities because you have

00:15:56.788 --> 00:15:58.490
dialysis that's going to keep you alive.

00:15:59.049 --> 00:16:00.030
So with kidneys,

00:16:00.431 --> 00:16:02.552
it's kind of based on your wait time,

00:16:02.893 --> 00:16:04.433
how well you're doing on dialysis,

00:16:04.494 --> 00:16:06.895
if you're compliant, all those things.

00:16:06.936 --> 00:16:08.998
But the biggest thing is the blood type

00:16:09.038 --> 00:16:09.698
has to match.

00:16:10.438 --> 00:16:12.301
So if we have different blood types,

00:16:12.621 --> 00:16:14.143
it doesn't matter when we got listed.

00:16:14.464 --> 00:16:15.924
Because if I'm an O,

00:16:15.965 --> 00:16:17.606
which I'm an O, and Karen,

00:16:17.626 --> 00:16:19.928
you're an A, and Kat, you're a B,

00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:21.851
if an O organ comes up,

00:16:22.432 --> 00:16:23.332
that matches Bobby.

00:16:23.373 --> 00:16:24.674
Right.

00:16:24.695 --> 00:16:24.914
Okay,

00:16:24.955 --> 00:16:26.596
so it doesn't matter when you got listed.

00:16:27.607 --> 00:16:27.947
You know,

00:16:28.068 --> 00:16:29.750
so you're in that group of people with

00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:30.291
O's.

00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:30.971
If Karen,

00:16:31.011 --> 00:16:32.493
you're in a group of people who had

00:16:32.552 --> 00:16:33.453
A's, you know,

00:16:33.514 --> 00:16:35.096
cats in a group of people who have

00:16:35.395 --> 00:16:35.515
B's.

00:16:35.535 --> 00:16:36.456
That's your group.

00:16:37.018 --> 00:16:39.860
So it doesn't matter what else happens on

00:16:39.900 --> 00:16:40.380
that part.

00:16:40.441 --> 00:16:43.244
Now, when you talk about heart, liver,

00:16:43.664 --> 00:16:44.245
lungs,

00:16:44.885 --> 00:16:46.947
then now the priority is

00:16:47.368 --> 00:16:49.729
place effect because if your heart stops

00:16:50.208 --> 00:16:51.809
it's over you don't have a second chance

00:16:51.830 --> 00:16:55.010
right so there is a priority so if

00:16:55.071 --> 00:16:58.731
a person what they call is uh categorized

00:16:58.812 --> 00:17:01.432
as a one stage um I mean in

00:17:01.692 --> 00:17:03.714
uh stage one then that means he goes

00:17:03.734 --> 00:17:06.654
to the top of the list okay because

00:17:06.795 --> 00:17:08.615
he only may have days or weeks to

00:17:08.655 --> 00:17:08.895
live

00:17:10.070 --> 00:17:10.351
Okay.

00:17:10.790 --> 00:17:11.971
So then now you have,

00:17:12.051 --> 00:17:13.492
he's on the top of the list that

00:17:13.833 --> 00:17:16.794
that heart can come from Alabama because

00:17:16.814 --> 00:17:17.595
there's an alert.

00:17:17.734 --> 00:17:18.015
Okay.

00:17:18.035 --> 00:17:18.654
And if he met,

00:17:18.694 --> 00:17:20.955
if that matches that person who says in

00:17:20.976 --> 00:17:21.395
Georgia,

00:17:21.675 --> 00:17:22.836
it's going to come and he's going to

00:17:22.856 --> 00:17:23.997
get it.

00:17:24.337 --> 00:17:24.597
Okay.

00:17:24.637 --> 00:17:27.338
So it's basically the sixth is the

00:17:27.378 --> 00:17:29.380
priority when you need the other organs.

00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:32.142
And then they have a criteria with which

00:17:32.502 --> 00:17:35.086
you do have to be in compliant.

00:17:35.125 --> 00:17:36.267
And if you're not in compliant, like,

00:17:36.287 --> 00:17:37.709
so whatever that, I guess,

00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:39.611
lungs and you still smoking square,

00:17:39.931 --> 00:17:42.074
you get kicked off the list, right?

00:17:42.094 --> 00:17:44.276
Does that same criteria apply to kidneys

00:17:44.316 --> 00:17:44.696
as well?

00:17:45.037 --> 00:17:46.218
Well, kidneys are different.

00:17:46.317 --> 00:17:46.558
Okay.

00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:48.840
It's different because you have dialysis.

00:17:48.861 --> 00:17:49.541
You have dialysis.

00:17:50.678 --> 00:17:51.038
Okay.

00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.279
So because now, for example,

00:17:53.299 --> 00:17:56.182
if you smoke when you have kidney failure,

00:17:56.301 --> 00:17:57.823
the smoke is getting called the kidney

00:17:57.843 --> 00:17:58.222
disease.

00:17:58.242 --> 00:18:01.065
But if you have lung and you smoke,

00:18:01.724 --> 00:18:03.046
that's where the lungs,

00:18:03.086 --> 00:18:04.146
that's where it's going.

00:18:04.227 --> 00:18:05.968
And so there's a lot of variables and

00:18:06.087 --> 00:18:09.250
each organ has their own set of rules

00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:11.612
of how those things operate.

00:18:12.551 --> 00:18:13.573
And so do you...

00:18:14.886 --> 00:18:17.588
In your work over the years,

00:18:18.970 --> 00:18:22.071
are Black folks staying on dialysis longer

00:18:22.092 --> 00:18:22.832
than other people?

00:18:23.133 --> 00:18:23.593
Absolutely.

00:18:23.613 --> 00:18:24.473
OK.

00:18:24.554 --> 00:18:26.414
And why do you think that is?

00:18:26.434 --> 00:18:28.236
Yeah, why?

00:18:28.336 --> 00:18:33.019
Part of it is lack of knowledge,

00:18:33.058 --> 00:18:34.701
lack of knowledge that we don't know.

00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:36.761
And then there from the health care side,

00:18:37.021 --> 00:18:37.623
I believe,

00:18:38.282 --> 00:18:40.064
is that we're not getting all the proper

00:18:40.183 --> 00:18:40.765
information.

00:18:41.703 --> 00:18:43.444
to make sure that we're making the best

00:18:43.484 --> 00:18:46.227
decisions for our healthcare.

00:18:46.307 --> 00:18:46.987
What do you mean?

00:18:48.048 --> 00:18:50.009
I don't know.

00:18:50.108 --> 00:18:51.148
You got to fill me in.

00:18:51.489 --> 00:18:52.089
I'm confused.

00:18:54.151 --> 00:18:56.571
Why would us being on dialysis,

00:18:56.612 --> 00:18:57.893
depending on information,

00:18:57.932 --> 00:18:59.114
we don't know what we need to do

00:18:59.153 --> 00:19:00.554
to get off the dialysis?

00:19:00.574 --> 00:19:02.015
Is that what you're saying?

00:19:02.496 --> 00:19:03.496
Well, we have fear.

00:19:04.096 --> 00:19:07.637
For example,

00:19:07.657 --> 00:19:09.740
you can have chronic kidney disease at a

00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:10.420
stage one.

00:19:11.657 --> 00:19:11.938
OK,

00:19:12.558 --> 00:19:14.040
now you're not going to get on dialysis

00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:15.462
till you reach stage five.

00:19:15.963 --> 00:19:18.126
So you get four stages in between there.

00:19:18.626 --> 00:19:21.191
So why is it if you get diagnosed

00:19:21.270 --> 00:19:24.054
at stage one in January in a year,

00:19:24.295 --> 00:19:25.256
you're on dialysis?

00:19:26.479 --> 00:19:28.782
That shouldn't happen if you're, you know,

00:19:28.803 --> 00:19:32.548
so there's information that that's missing

00:19:33.450 --> 00:19:34.351
in that phase.

00:19:34.892 --> 00:19:38.959
So I believe personally that a lot of

00:19:39.118 --> 00:19:40.119
and let's be honest,

00:19:40.340 --> 00:19:41.702
Dallas is a moneymaker.

00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:44.028
Yes, it is.

00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:45.329
And once you're on it,

00:19:45.349 --> 00:19:47.853
you can't work for most people.

00:19:48.032 --> 00:19:48.313
Yeah.

00:19:48.393 --> 00:19:48.613
Yeah.

00:19:48.633 --> 00:19:48.772
Yeah.

00:19:48.792 --> 00:19:49.253
Can't work.

00:19:49.294 --> 00:19:49.913
They don't work.

00:19:49.953 --> 00:19:51.316
So they depend on dialysis.

00:19:51.895 --> 00:19:53.698
And so if you're not working,

00:19:53.738 --> 00:19:55.038
you're considered disabled.

00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:56.319
You're on dialysis.

00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:58.821
That dialysis clinic is making all this

00:19:58.882 --> 00:19:59.082
money.

00:19:59.102 --> 00:20:01.124
So what's my incentive to get you off?

00:20:01.263 --> 00:20:01.484
Oh, wow.

00:20:02.991 --> 00:20:05.571
And I've known people on dialysis for

00:20:05.813 --> 00:20:06.952
years.

00:20:07.413 --> 00:20:08.333
That's why when you said you got a

00:20:08.373 --> 00:20:10.692
transplant in seven months, that,

00:20:11.054 --> 00:20:12.953
that was surprising to me because I've

00:20:13.034 --> 00:20:14.574
known, um,

00:20:15.334 --> 00:20:17.075
a good friend of mine years ago,

00:20:17.115 --> 00:20:19.875
her brother had lupus and he had been

00:20:19.934 --> 00:20:21.714
on dialysis for years.

00:20:21.755 --> 00:20:23.855
He ended up passing away, um,

00:20:23.875 --> 00:20:25.336
from complications of the lupus,

00:20:25.355 --> 00:20:28.196
but he had been on dialysis for years.

00:20:28.237 --> 00:20:29.916
He went like three days a week.

00:20:31.538 --> 00:20:32.518
And it was,

00:20:32.637 --> 00:20:33.758
he couldn't work because it wasn't,

00:20:34.098 --> 00:20:35.499
it was an all day thing.

00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.119
She would drop him off in the morning.

00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:38.579
He would, you know,

00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:39.760
he would be there until,

00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:41.060
until the afternoon.

00:20:41.080 --> 00:20:43.041
And he'd come home and go to sleep.

00:20:43.442 --> 00:20:43.821
Yeah.

00:20:43.882 --> 00:20:45.222
That's all he could do,

00:20:45.242 --> 00:20:46.282
which is because he'd be so tired.

00:20:46.303 --> 00:20:53.726
So, you know, is, is there any,

00:20:53.885 --> 00:20:55.807
is there a shortage of,

00:20:58.314 --> 00:20:59.978
Black people who are donating

00:21:01.805 --> 00:21:04.926
to be transplant for folks to be

00:21:04.967 --> 00:21:08.769
recipients.

00:21:08.808 --> 00:21:10.029
That's why I do the work that I

00:21:10.049 --> 00:21:10.190
do.

00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:13.932
And that's why I got started in doing

00:21:13.951 --> 00:21:14.531
this work.

00:21:14.592 --> 00:21:16.932
And in my journey of being on dialysis,

00:21:16.992 --> 00:21:18.574
I learned so much about dialysis.

00:21:18.653 --> 00:21:20.855
I learned so much of a lot of

00:21:20.894 --> 00:21:24.297
things about why I couldn't get my

00:21:24.336 --> 00:21:26.417
transplant the same day I was diagnosed.

00:21:27.178 --> 00:21:29.740
And especially when you look at kidneys,

00:21:30.867 --> 00:21:32.730
Your best possible match may come from

00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:34.892
someone in your same ethnic background,

00:21:34.951 --> 00:21:36.794
which means if you're African-American,

00:21:36.814 --> 00:21:38.455
your best match might come from another

00:21:38.576 --> 00:21:39.217
African-American.

00:21:39.237 --> 00:21:41.118
I'm not saying that solid.

00:21:41.179 --> 00:21:42.099
Did not know that.

00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:44.402
Thank you for that nugget.

00:21:44.702 --> 00:21:45.923
When we don't donate,

00:21:46.423 --> 00:21:48.205
especially the way that we match kidney,

00:21:48.507 --> 00:21:50.368
when we don't donate our organs,

00:21:50.769 --> 00:21:52.770
we suffer over here on dialysis and pass

00:21:52.810 --> 00:21:53.070
away.

00:21:53.771 --> 00:21:55.593
OK, so with the shortage,

00:21:55.894 --> 00:21:57.634
the shortage and not shouldn't say

00:21:57.654 --> 00:21:58.035
shortage,

00:21:58.375 --> 00:22:00.237
the lack of African-Americans who are

00:22:00.297 --> 00:22:01.298
willing to donate.

00:22:01.758 --> 00:22:03.878
That's why I've taken up the cause at

00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:06.981
working with Lifelink to have the program

00:22:07.021 --> 00:22:10.324
that I run is to educate our people

00:22:10.423 --> 00:22:11.904
on the importance of organ donation,

00:22:11.924 --> 00:22:13.246
but also healthy living.

00:22:13.566 --> 00:22:14.967
So it's a twofold thing.

00:22:15.248 --> 00:22:16.509
We want we don't want you to be

00:22:16.568 --> 00:22:17.148
on dialysis.

00:22:17.189 --> 00:22:18.150
We want you to be healthy.

00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:19.529
But when your life is over,

00:22:19.569 --> 00:22:21.070
we want you to leave something behind.

00:22:21.371 --> 00:22:25.053
So to somebody who didn't have the

00:22:26.973 --> 00:22:28.974
opportunity to have their organs to last

00:22:28.994 --> 00:22:29.954
the way that yours did,

00:22:30.275 --> 00:22:31.715
you can give them something and leave

00:22:31.756 --> 00:22:32.556
something behind.

00:22:32.935 --> 00:22:35.877
So it's a program that is designed and

00:22:35.958 --> 00:22:36.377
geared

00:22:36.877 --> 00:22:39.701
to educate African Americans and Hispanics

00:22:39.780 --> 00:22:42.502
about the importance of being organ donors

00:22:42.542 --> 00:22:45.384
so the wait times, especially for kidneys,

00:22:45.645 --> 00:22:46.306
can come down.

00:22:46.346 --> 00:22:46.967
For example,

00:22:46.987 --> 00:22:49.229
the average wait time here in the state

00:22:49.249 --> 00:22:51.310
of Georgia for an African American is six

00:22:51.330 --> 00:22:51.990
to eight years.

00:22:53.291 --> 00:23:00.257
for kidney yeah yeah and then when you

00:23:00.297 --> 00:23:02.278
look at um so you look at the

00:23:02.377 --> 00:23:05.640
overall numbers seventy four percent of

00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:08.602
african seventy four percent of africa of

00:23:08.642 --> 00:23:11.044
the wait list is made up of african

00:23:11.084 --> 00:23:12.585
americans here in the state of georgia

00:23:13.025 --> 00:23:15.547
with ninety seven percent of that number

00:23:15.787 --> 00:23:19.869
wait for kidneys alone and if you look

00:23:20.049 --> 00:23:21.651
in any predominantly

00:23:22.596 --> 00:23:24.278
African-American neighborhood,

00:23:24.939 --> 00:23:26.300
there's a dialysis center.

00:23:27.422 --> 00:23:29.624
There's a dialysis center and sometimes

00:23:29.683 --> 00:23:30.525
not just one.

00:23:32.246 --> 00:23:37.070
There are some very well-known dialysis

00:23:37.111 --> 00:23:38.573
centers that are chains.

00:23:39.073 --> 00:23:41.013
and they set up in Black neighborhoods.

00:23:41.034 --> 00:23:42.154
Absolutely.

00:23:43.016 --> 00:23:43.776
But Bobby,

00:23:43.855 --> 00:23:46.258
tell us about how you became affiliated

00:23:46.298 --> 00:23:47.317
with Life Link.

00:23:48.638 --> 00:23:50.661
I know you've been doing this work with

00:23:50.681 --> 00:23:50.840
them,

00:23:50.861 --> 00:23:52.301
but how did you become affiliated with

00:23:52.321 --> 00:23:52.481
them?

00:23:52.961 --> 00:23:54.883
Well, and very interesting,

00:23:54.923 --> 00:23:56.403
after I received my transplant.

00:23:56.785 --> 00:23:58.586
And you got to stay around and have

00:23:58.685 --> 00:24:00.106
all these visits and everything,

00:24:00.747 --> 00:24:01.367
appointments.

00:24:02.248 --> 00:24:04.108
And when I was released to go to

00:24:04.148 --> 00:24:07.730
work, I told my transplant team, I said,

00:24:07.810 --> 00:24:09.031
OK, I'll see you guys later.

00:24:09.051 --> 00:24:11.932
You got a doctor in Tampa I can

00:24:11.952 --> 00:24:12.192
go to.

00:24:12.212 --> 00:24:12.893
They looked at me like,

00:24:12.913 --> 00:24:13.354
what do you mean?

00:24:13.374 --> 00:24:14.233
I said, I don't live here.

00:24:14.554 --> 00:24:16.535
I was just here visiting and got sick

00:24:16.674 --> 00:24:18.715
and decided because I didn't have any

00:24:18.756 --> 00:24:20.297
family in Tampa.

00:24:20.317 --> 00:24:21.278
I had some family here.

00:24:21.678 --> 00:24:23.479
I was going back to Tampa to work.

00:24:24.340 --> 00:24:25.781
And one doctor said,

00:24:25.882 --> 00:24:26.801
you don't have a job?

00:24:27.021 --> 00:24:28.022
I said, no.

00:24:28.442 --> 00:24:30.183
So maybe about two days later,

00:24:30.243 --> 00:24:31.884
I get a phone call from Lifelink.

00:24:32.484 --> 00:24:35.707
I didn't know the transplant surgeon and

00:24:35.747 --> 00:24:36.747
my nephrologist.

00:24:37.228 --> 00:24:39.108
They both helped start Lifelink.

00:24:39.128 --> 00:24:40.669
Oh, wow.

00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:43.431
And they recommended me for a job at

00:24:43.471 --> 00:24:43.931
Lifelink.

00:24:43.990 --> 00:24:44.951
I get the phone call.

00:24:45.011 --> 00:24:46.112
I went in to interview.

00:24:46.992 --> 00:24:49.314
And I was hired within a week.

00:24:50.665 --> 00:24:51.406
And I've been here,

00:24:51.426 --> 00:24:53.808
I'm going on my thirty second year of

00:24:53.868 --> 00:24:54.989
being with life.

00:24:55.230 --> 00:25:00.653
Stop.

00:25:00.874 --> 00:25:03.655
You call yourself an ambassador for life.

00:25:03.796 --> 00:25:04.136
Tell us.

00:25:04.336 --> 00:25:05.277
Tell us about that.

00:25:05.458 --> 00:25:05.678
Well,

00:25:06.679 --> 00:25:09.201
because I believe that everyone should

00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:11.162
have the same opportunities in life that

00:25:11.321 --> 00:25:11.782
I've had.

00:25:12.502 --> 00:25:17.105
And that's to enjoy life, to enjoy family,

00:25:17.145 --> 00:25:19.527
to enjoy friends, and just live free.

00:25:20.028 --> 00:25:23.048
So any health issues that there is with

00:25:23.088 --> 00:25:25.730
the focus of donation and transplantation,

00:25:26.070 --> 00:25:27.511
I just want to give life to people

00:25:27.531 --> 00:25:29.894
and give people hope that no matter what

00:25:29.913 --> 00:25:32.295
you may be going through health-wise,

00:25:32.674 --> 00:25:34.675
that that doesn't have to be the end

00:25:34.817 --> 00:25:35.356
of all,

00:25:35.737 --> 00:25:37.498
is that we have to take the attitude,

00:25:37.557 --> 00:25:39.479
no matter what diagnosis we get,

00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:41.780
that we have a fighting chance to win.

00:25:42.681 --> 00:25:45.522
And with that fighting chance to win comes

00:25:45.583 --> 00:25:46.963
in part of that is you have to

00:25:47.023 --> 00:25:47.924
enjoy your life.

00:25:48.345 --> 00:25:49.865
You know, some things have to change,

00:25:49.905 --> 00:25:51.267
but you still have to enjoy life.

00:25:51.707 --> 00:25:53.769
So I just wanted to be, you know,

00:25:54.048 --> 00:25:56.109
someone as an ambassador who speaks

00:25:56.190 --> 00:25:59.112
positivity about life into those who are

00:25:59.571 --> 00:26:00.792
suffering health challenges.

00:26:00.873 --> 00:26:02.314
Amen.

00:26:02.413 --> 00:26:04.496
Thank you for being obedient to your

00:26:04.516 --> 00:26:05.175
calling.

00:26:05.884 --> 00:26:08.127
know because having that at a young age

00:26:08.167 --> 00:26:09.690
and having these things happen to you you

00:26:09.710 --> 00:26:10.991
could have just through the time i was

00:26:11.031 --> 00:26:12.493
like i'm just gonna worry about me myself

00:26:12.534 --> 00:26:14.916
and i but you you understood your

00:26:14.977 --> 00:26:18.221
assignment yes ma'am follow course i love

00:26:18.241 --> 00:26:20.865
that i have one weird question because

00:26:20.884 --> 00:26:22.887
when i was reading about what can be

00:26:22.928 --> 00:26:23.489
donated

00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:24.848
Do you know,

00:26:24.869 --> 00:26:26.270
can you speak to the eyes?

00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:27.411
I was slow.

00:26:27.530 --> 00:26:28.791
I didn't know anything about you could

00:26:28.811 --> 00:26:28.992
donate.

00:26:29.012 --> 00:26:29.032
I.

00:26:29.053 --> 00:26:31.173
What can you talk to that a little

00:26:31.193 --> 00:26:31.334
bit?

00:26:31.453 --> 00:26:32.795
I have no idea what that is.

00:26:32.875 --> 00:26:33.355
Yeah,

00:26:33.895 --> 00:26:36.857
there's a lot of folks who suffer from

00:26:37.638 --> 00:26:40.161
disease and not cataract,

00:26:40.221 --> 00:26:43.063
but and they need I transplants now.

00:26:43.363 --> 00:26:45.444
It's not the whole at its transplant.

00:26:45.984 --> 00:26:47.807
It's primarily the lens that you have,

00:26:47.846 --> 00:26:49.188
the cornea transplant,

00:26:49.587 --> 00:26:51.390
the lens that you have that goes to

00:26:51.809 --> 00:26:52.351
other people.

00:26:52.810 --> 00:26:54.432
And that's another thing.

00:26:54.952 --> 00:27:00.038
There's so many people who have received

00:27:00.077 --> 00:27:01.199
cornea transplants.

00:27:01.558 --> 00:27:01.878
And, you know,

00:27:01.898 --> 00:27:03.721
the big misconception when we talk,

00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:05.041
you're going to take my whole eyeball.

00:27:05.082 --> 00:27:06.202
What's going to be there when I have

00:27:06.222 --> 00:27:06.824
a funeral?

00:27:07.344 --> 00:27:08.765
you know and a lot of people don't

00:27:08.805 --> 00:27:11.186
understand that that funeral process that

00:27:11.367 --> 00:27:14.009
that there are like sort of like let

00:27:14.029 --> 00:27:15.871
me call them plastic caps that are placed

00:27:15.971 --> 00:27:18.473
under your eyes and the clothes that make

00:27:18.513 --> 00:27:21.096
it seem like you have a eyeball you

00:27:21.135 --> 00:27:22.998
know an eye socket i mean eyeball in

00:27:23.038 --> 00:27:23.258
there

00:27:24.057 --> 00:27:26.881
So no one will ever know that donated

00:27:26.921 --> 00:27:28.682
your eyes if that's what you choose to

00:27:28.702 --> 00:27:28.923
do.

00:27:28.962 --> 00:27:30.163
So that's very true.

00:27:30.183 --> 00:27:31.444
You ain't gonna need them eyes in heaven.

00:27:31.484 --> 00:27:32.786
You ain't gonna need them kidneys in

00:27:32.846 --> 00:27:33.126
heaven.

00:27:33.527 --> 00:27:33.846
You know,

00:27:33.926 --> 00:27:36.490
but telling some of these church folks,

00:27:36.730 --> 00:27:38.030
working with these church folks, you know,

00:27:38.070 --> 00:27:38.791
I have a saying.

00:27:39.372 --> 00:27:40.531
You know, when I speak at church,

00:27:40.571 --> 00:27:41.251
as I said, you know,

00:27:41.311 --> 00:27:43.613
it amazes me that we come to church,

00:27:43.633 --> 00:27:45.413
come to Bible study, read the Bible.

00:27:45.834 --> 00:27:47.453
And there's so often we say, well,

00:27:47.493 --> 00:27:48.673
when I get to see Jesus,

00:27:48.713 --> 00:27:49.894
you're going to do this and all this

00:27:49.933 --> 00:27:50.255
stuff.

00:27:50.674 --> 00:27:52.035
But we get kicking and screaming.

00:27:52.075 --> 00:27:53.255
We go on kicking and screaming.

00:27:53.694 --> 00:27:55.375
We ain't trying to get there too fast.

00:27:56.056 --> 00:27:56.395
You know,

00:27:56.635 --> 00:27:57.836
and the other part of that is,

00:27:57.875 --> 00:28:00.737
is that who's died and come back to

00:28:00.777 --> 00:28:03.438
say what you need to get in heaven?

00:28:03.597 --> 00:28:04.718
I say that all the time.

00:28:06.352 --> 00:28:06.932
You know,

00:28:06.951 --> 00:28:10.413
what do you think the barrier is in

00:28:10.554 --> 00:28:12.054
our community to donate our organs?

00:28:12.074 --> 00:28:12.694
Like organ donors.

00:28:22.557 --> 00:28:24.240
But it was easy for me to make

00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:26.662
that decision because I've been around

00:28:27.343 --> 00:28:29.664
loss of life so much that I wanted

00:28:29.684 --> 00:28:31.287
to make sure that I know when I'm

00:28:31.326 --> 00:28:31.567
gone,

00:28:31.646 --> 00:28:32.488
I ain't going to need it where I'm

00:28:32.528 --> 00:28:32.888
going.

00:28:33.429 --> 00:28:36.231
But even as simple as people with cancer,

00:28:36.271 --> 00:28:37.613
people donate their hair,

00:28:37.633 --> 00:28:38.653
some people have wigs.

00:28:39.035 --> 00:28:39.375
I mean,

00:28:39.755 --> 00:28:41.116
what do you think that barrier is in

00:28:41.136 --> 00:28:41.696
our community?

00:28:42.038 --> 00:28:42.657
It's mistrust.

00:28:42.678 --> 00:28:43.239
It's mistrust.

00:28:44.246 --> 00:28:46.227
It's mistrust of the healthcare system.

00:28:47.027 --> 00:28:49.147
And even today,

00:28:49.167 --> 00:28:50.929
there's a lot of things that are going

00:28:51.048 --> 00:28:53.829
on in hospitals and things that are

00:28:53.849 --> 00:28:55.711
happening that we just have a lot of

00:28:55.750 --> 00:28:56.311
mistrust.

00:28:56.731 --> 00:28:57.791
The other side of that,

00:28:57.951 --> 00:29:00.874
it's us being selfish as people.

00:29:01.473 --> 00:29:02.693
We don't donate to anything.

00:29:03.054 --> 00:29:04.734
We don't give back to our colleges.

00:29:04.795 --> 00:29:06.375
We don't give to, you know,

00:29:06.434 --> 00:29:07.855
we go to charitable events.

00:29:07.895 --> 00:29:10.096
We ain't buying nothing for no auctions.

00:29:10.656 --> 00:29:12.797
It's a cultural thing that we have that

00:29:12.856 --> 00:29:14.438
we have to get over and it carries

00:29:14.557 --> 00:29:14.917
over.

00:29:15.718 --> 00:29:16.938
And, you know, I tell you,

00:29:17.038 --> 00:29:19.378
it's so sad when you have family members

00:29:19.878 --> 00:29:22.839
who are eligible to donate and can donate

00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:24.339
but won't give anything to their loved

00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:24.420
one.

00:29:27.019 --> 00:29:29.780
mean that they're afraid of what may like

00:29:29.861 --> 00:29:31.441
people think i if i give you a

00:29:31.461 --> 00:29:32.922
kidney or if i give you how is

00:29:32.961 --> 00:29:34.721
that going to impact my life after i

00:29:34.741 --> 00:29:38.262
donate well i tell you this it happens

00:29:38.323 --> 00:29:41.003
a lot and so if you if you

00:29:41.023 --> 00:29:43.265
do donate something happen you

00:29:43.365 --> 00:29:46.184
automatically go to the top you're you're

00:29:46.204 --> 00:29:49.145
a priority because you already gave you

00:29:49.165 --> 00:29:50.686
already don't you're a priority

00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:56.651
is testing that's out of the world they

00:29:56.671 --> 00:29:58.471
test you from head to toe they really

00:29:58.511 --> 00:30:00.373
try to rule you out instead of ruling

00:30:00.413 --> 00:30:03.173
you in to be eligible to donate it's

00:30:03.213 --> 00:30:05.234
just not like you know if you want

00:30:05.275 --> 00:30:06.756
to donate me a kid they say okay

00:30:06.796 --> 00:30:08.596
y'all match up we'll take it tomorrow oh

00:30:08.676 --> 00:30:10.298
no they're going to ask you why are

00:30:10.337 --> 00:30:12.759
you donating is he paying you any money

00:30:12.778 --> 00:30:16.400
oh wow oh yeah yeah yeah you know

00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:18.101
you know because there have been there

00:30:18.161 --> 00:30:19.021
have been at least

00:30:20.826 --> 00:30:22.288
there have been stories,

00:30:22.488 --> 00:30:23.907
and I don't know how true they are

00:30:23.928 --> 00:30:24.208
or not,

00:30:24.567 --> 00:30:27.749
of people selling body parts on the black

00:30:27.969 --> 00:30:29.969
market.

00:30:30.088 --> 00:30:30.588
Oh, I got you.

00:30:30.608 --> 00:30:30.749
Okay.

00:30:30.769 --> 00:30:32.589
So we want to make sure that everything

00:30:32.630 --> 00:30:34.869
is clean and that you're doing it for

00:30:34.890 --> 00:30:35.690
the right reason.

00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:37.191
So, Bobby,

00:30:37.211 --> 00:30:41.891
let's talk about what conversations do we

00:30:42.090 --> 00:30:44.852
as black folks need to be having with

00:30:44.872 --> 00:30:48.573
our loved ones about organ and tissue

00:30:48.613 --> 00:30:49.232
donation?

00:30:49.952 --> 00:30:52.175
i think the first conversation needs that

00:30:52.215 --> 00:30:53.857
you need to have is talking about just

00:30:53.978 --> 00:30:56.381
overall general health care with your

00:30:56.421 --> 00:30:58.042
family make sure you go into the hospital

00:30:58.083 --> 00:30:59.384
make sure i'm not hospital make sure

00:30:59.403 --> 00:31:01.026
you're going to your primary care

00:31:01.066 --> 00:31:02.667
physician make sure you're doing your

00:31:02.688 --> 00:31:04.830
blood work let's make sure all those

00:31:04.851 --> 00:31:05.570
things check out

00:31:06.152 --> 00:31:07.732
Then we need to have that conversation

00:31:07.752 --> 00:31:08.673
about organ donation.

00:31:08.712 --> 00:31:09.772
And it's a simple question.

00:31:09.813 --> 00:31:11.574
Hey, are you an organ donor?

00:31:11.614 --> 00:31:13.795
When they ask and just have because and

00:31:13.835 --> 00:31:14.315
be prepared.

00:31:14.434 --> 00:31:14.494
Oh,

00:31:14.634 --> 00:31:15.634
I ain't doing that because they ain't

00:31:15.654 --> 00:31:17.276
going to kill me to take my organs,

00:31:17.736 --> 00:31:18.076
you know,

00:31:18.236 --> 00:31:21.136
and get over those fears that we have

00:31:21.176 --> 00:31:22.317
to have the conversation.

00:31:22.597 --> 00:31:24.218
And I think we don't want to have

00:31:24.238 --> 00:31:27.159
the conversation because we're in fear of

00:31:27.838 --> 00:31:30.861
of knowing the realities is that when you

00:31:30.921 --> 00:31:32.201
donate, life is over.

00:31:36.271 --> 00:31:38.574
And so we, you know,

00:31:38.834 --> 00:31:40.295
we don't even talk about funeral

00:31:40.694 --> 00:31:42.336
arrangements while we're living.

00:31:42.876 --> 00:31:44.498
We avoid those conversations to deal

00:31:44.557 --> 00:31:45.578
anything around that.

00:31:45.638 --> 00:31:46.298
We don't talk about that.

00:31:46.318 --> 00:31:47.200
Trust and all of that.

00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:48.520
Yeah.

00:31:48.580 --> 00:31:49.781
You're right.

00:31:49.902 --> 00:31:50.561
You're right.

00:31:52.723 --> 00:31:53.263
We don't.

00:31:53.845 --> 00:31:55.405
We do not have to change that

00:31:55.445 --> 00:31:56.046
conversation.

00:31:56.086 --> 00:31:57.166
We got to change that conversation.

00:31:58.047 --> 00:31:59.887
you know generational wealth and all that

00:32:00.068 --> 00:32:01.990
just getting everything in order because

00:32:02.009 --> 00:32:05.071
it's nothing like how can i grieve if

00:32:05.132 --> 00:32:06.613
i'm too busy trying to take care of

00:32:06.633 --> 00:32:08.575
everything you don't want to talk about

00:32:08.615 --> 00:32:12.277
putting things in place and sharing with

00:32:12.317 --> 00:32:14.198
your family that you're an old organ donor

00:32:14.278 --> 00:32:16.200
i mean thank you for your driver's license

00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:18.280
but i think like you said karen and

00:32:18.300 --> 00:32:19.962
bobby to have that conversation at your

00:32:19.982 --> 00:32:23.765
kitchen table and and you know introduce

00:32:23.785 --> 00:32:25.445
that conversation maybe for the very first

00:32:25.465 --> 00:32:27.468
time and have that conversation

00:32:28.028 --> 00:32:29.931
I know years ago when I first moved

00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:32.653
to Georgia, ninety three, ninety four,

00:32:34.554 --> 00:32:40.298
Georgia used to actively ask when you went

00:32:40.338 --> 00:32:43.821
to DMV DDS to to get your driver's

00:32:43.862 --> 00:32:44.402
license.

00:32:44.761 --> 00:32:46.463
Do you want to be an organ donor?

00:32:46.483 --> 00:32:47.964
And they actually used to give you a

00:32:48.105 --> 00:32:48.826
discount.

00:32:49.972 --> 00:32:53.917
um like it was i think the yeah

00:32:53.938 --> 00:32:55.058
so it was an incentive so they would

00:32:55.078 --> 00:32:57.101
give you a discount on your license or

00:32:57.121 --> 00:33:00.545
your license renewal if you were um an

00:33:00.785 --> 00:33:03.907
organ donor and so somewhere along the

00:33:03.988 --> 00:33:07.893
line over the years they've stopped asking

00:33:09.273 --> 00:33:10.596
if you ask them

00:33:11.945 --> 00:33:15.148
about organ donation then you know they'll

00:33:15.169 --> 00:33:16.930
go ahead and sign you up for it

00:33:17.289 --> 00:33:20.212
but i've i have found that i had

00:33:20.232 --> 00:33:21.554
to ask because i went in for a

00:33:21.653 --> 00:33:24.636
license renewal probably about fifteen

00:33:24.676 --> 00:33:28.759
years ago and um the the young lady

00:33:29.740 --> 00:33:31.863
had just printed off my license and i

00:33:31.923 --> 00:33:32.103
said

00:33:33.891 --> 00:33:35.311
I'm an organ donor.

00:33:35.472 --> 00:33:37.815
What happened?

00:33:37.875 --> 00:33:40.817
You didn't ask me about my organ donation.

00:33:41.157 --> 00:33:41.397
Oh, well,

00:33:41.417 --> 00:33:42.599
your license is just printed now.

00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:43.579
You got to do it next time.

00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:45.301
Wow.

00:33:48.592 --> 00:33:49.373
Absolutely correct.

00:33:49.673 --> 00:33:51.473
Years ago, there was an incentive.

00:33:51.894 --> 00:33:53.915
We removed that because that was a form

00:33:53.955 --> 00:33:54.695
of coercion,

00:33:55.036 --> 00:33:56.938
that we were offering something to get

00:33:56.998 --> 00:33:57.718
something back.

00:33:58.419 --> 00:33:59.719
So we stopped doing that.

00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:01.160
That was our decision,

00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:03.922
not the DDS office decision.

00:34:04.221 --> 00:34:06.384
So we thought looking at it was a

00:34:06.463 --> 00:34:07.444
form of coercion.

00:34:07.944 --> 00:34:08.224
Now,

00:34:08.545 --> 00:34:10.347
the way that everything is electronic

00:34:11.306 --> 00:34:12.726
Now for your driver's license,

00:34:12.786 --> 00:34:13.726
as you scroll down,

00:34:13.786 --> 00:34:16.409
there's a little small piece that says

00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:17.989
would you like to be an organ donor?

00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:20.250
And the other piece of that is that

00:34:21.351 --> 00:34:25.913
we did some surveys with people and people

00:34:25.952 --> 00:34:27.853
didn't want to get their information from

00:34:27.893 --> 00:34:29.434
the people at the DDS office.

00:34:29.494 --> 00:34:31.135
And so, for example, using you,

00:34:31.476 --> 00:34:33.257
if you start asking the lady or the

00:34:33.356 --> 00:34:34.056
male question,

00:34:34.077 --> 00:34:35.277
they don't have an answer for you.

00:34:36.675 --> 00:34:41.217
So it's a work in progress that we're

00:34:41.237 --> 00:34:43.378
trying to do some things with DDS because

00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:44.719
now people are saying,

00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:46.701
how come they don't have a brochure or

00:34:46.721 --> 00:34:48.081
have this in their office?

00:34:48.121 --> 00:34:51.202
So it's always a struggle back and forth

00:34:51.242 --> 00:34:53.425
because their genuine job is to get you

00:34:53.445 --> 00:34:54.364
a driver's license,

00:34:54.684 --> 00:34:56.425
not educate you about organ donation.

00:34:56.465 --> 00:34:58.766
But we know and everyone knows that's the

00:34:58.947 --> 00:35:01.469
easiest way to reach the large number of

00:35:01.509 --> 00:35:03.929
people is through the driver's services.

00:35:04.789 --> 00:35:24.884
so hello so all right um before we

00:35:24.923 --> 00:35:26.505
go on i did want to show the

00:35:26.585 --> 00:35:29.085
link for uh the website for

00:35:29.206 --> 00:35:32.989
lifelinkfoundation.org again that is life

00:35:33.721 --> 00:35:39.188
L-I-F-E, link, L-I-N-K, foundation.org,

00:35:40.168 --> 00:35:42.030
and the phone number,

00:35:53.907 --> 00:36:02.012
And Bobby Howard is the director of

00:36:02.152 --> 00:36:05.356
Lifelink of Georgia Multicultural Donation

00:36:05.536 --> 00:36:07.036
Education Program.

00:36:07.456 --> 00:36:09.518
And he has definitely indeed been

00:36:09.759 --> 00:36:13.001
educating us as we are sitting here

00:36:13.101 --> 00:36:16.443
talking about the importance of

00:36:17.353 --> 00:36:20.393
knowing about lifelink,

00:36:20.474 --> 00:36:23.175
knowing about donation, that process,

00:36:23.536 --> 00:36:25.195
things to look for,

00:36:28.016 --> 00:36:30.038
to be on the lookout for kidney disease.

00:36:31.018 --> 00:36:33.179
Again, as Bobby mentioned,

00:36:33.358 --> 00:36:39.262
APOL-I is a gene that some families may

00:36:39.302 --> 00:36:39.802
have.

00:36:40.398 --> 00:36:42.699
if you or someone else in your family,

00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.081
multiple people in your family have kidney

00:36:45.101 --> 00:36:45.440
disease,

00:36:45.460 --> 00:36:49.342
is it kidney disease or is it kidney

00:36:49.402 --> 00:36:50.762
failure or is that the same?

00:36:51.043 --> 00:36:52.204
Kidney disease.

00:36:52.284 --> 00:36:52.764
Kidney disease.

00:36:52.784 --> 00:36:53.204
Okay.

00:36:53.244 --> 00:36:55.284
So if you've got multiple people in your

00:36:55.324 --> 00:36:57.425
family that have kidney disease,

00:36:57.585 --> 00:36:59.306
or if you don't know your genetic history

00:36:59.347 --> 00:37:02.108
and you have kidney disease, start asking.

00:37:03.047 --> 00:37:05.548
And so can they get this APOL one

00:37:05.588 --> 00:37:06.889
test at their doctor?

00:37:07.722 --> 00:37:08.782
They can ask.

00:37:08.862 --> 00:37:11.324
I don't know if they're actively doing it

00:37:11.744 --> 00:37:14.865
within the hospital, but I know, like,

00:37:14.885 --> 00:37:17.047
for example, Morehouse School of Medicine,

00:37:18.068 --> 00:37:19.509
they're doing APOL,

00:37:20.389 --> 00:37:21.429
and I know because I see them at

00:37:21.449 --> 00:37:23.891
a lot of health fairs, you know,

00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.920
giving out information and where we're

00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:27.842
testing that cell.

00:37:27.882 --> 00:37:29.744
So it's just a simple question that they

00:37:29.943 --> 00:37:32.465
ask and find out where it's being done.

00:37:32.545 --> 00:37:34.728
Or you can just Google and see if

00:37:34.768 --> 00:37:36.688
there's any place in Georgia where you can

00:37:36.708 --> 00:37:38.771
get the APL-O-One testing.

00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:43.494
And then also check when you're going into

00:37:43.514 --> 00:37:45.315
the doctors and you're getting your

00:37:45.496 --> 00:37:48.277
annuals, you're going in for blood work,

00:37:48.297 --> 00:37:51.360
you're going in for urine tests and all

00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:52.782
of this when you're doing your annuals,

00:37:53.806 --> 00:37:55.706
have your creatinine levels checked and

00:37:55.726 --> 00:37:58.429
your bun levels and can't you remember

00:37:58.449 --> 00:38:01.170
what that bun said for again yes blood

00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:04.592
urea nitrogen all right so have those

00:38:04.652 --> 00:38:07.052
checked because those are indicators uh

00:38:07.072 --> 00:38:09.394
those could those would be indicators um

00:38:09.655 --> 00:38:11.536
if they're elevated would that be correct

00:38:12.315 --> 00:38:13.597
if they're elevated those could be

00:38:13.677 --> 00:38:15.998
indicators that something's going on with

00:38:16.018 --> 00:38:20.840
your kidneys yep yeah yeah and you know

00:38:21.893 --> 00:38:23.896
The biggest takeaway, I mean,

00:38:24.036 --> 00:38:25.257
all this information is great.

00:38:25.297 --> 00:38:27.719
Please go to the website and start the

00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:28.460
conversation.

00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:30.322
You be the person to start that

00:38:30.362 --> 00:38:31.043
conversation.

00:38:31.083 --> 00:38:32.764
Take the leap and do it.

00:38:32.824 --> 00:38:35.288
Get educated because these numbers that

00:38:35.307 --> 00:38:36.969
you share, brother, are staggering.

00:38:37.690 --> 00:38:38.371
I mean, this is...

00:38:41.418 --> 00:38:43.338
it hits hard for me and now you're

00:38:43.358 --> 00:38:44.920
making me wonder when i drive around

00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:46.840
because i see more dials and now you're

00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:48.780
putting it together and now this is the

00:38:48.820 --> 00:38:50.282
information now when people see these

00:38:50.302 --> 00:38:54.184
things you now can say why is this

00:38:54.244 --> 00:38:56.385
in this community how much money you

00:38:56.405 --> 00:38:58.385
making off of us so and i'm a

00:38:58.405 --> 00:39:00.065
health nut so that's my business journey

00:39:00.085 --> 00:39:02.266
within and i believe in educating people

00:39:02.306 --> 00:39:04.208
on moving your body and watching what you

00:39:04.228 --> 00:39:05.809
put in your food you can't out train

00:39:05.869 --> 00:39:07.389
a poor diet so we gotta watch what

00:39:07.429 --> 00:39:07.789
we eat

00:39:08.150 --> 00:39:10.331
and in our community we have so many

00:39:10.371 --> 00:39:13.731
fast food fried this you know now they

00:39:13.751 --> 00:39:20.353
got fried oreo cookies you know like yeah

00:39:20.474 --> 00:39:22.554
and you know you putting grapes and candy

00:39:22.635 --> 00:39:24.195
and freezing and i'm going you know don't

00:39:24.235 --> 00:39:25.795
get me wrong people are creative and they

00:39:25.815 --> 00:39:27.936
doing that thing but we have to really

00:39:27.976 --> 00:39:29.916
step back and think about what we putting

00:39:29.956 --> 00:39:31.436
in our body and how it's going to

00:39:31.456 --> 00:39:34.018
have a long-term impact because our body's

00:39:34.038 --> 00:39:35.659
not designed to eat all that stuff man

00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:36.978
some of us

00:39:37.943 --> 00:39:40.304
It really we are exposed because of our

00:39:40.344 --> 00:39:41.965
genes, because we're African-Americans,

00:39:42.005 --> 00:39:45.385
we're susceptible to certain conditions,

00:39:45.826 --> 00:39:47.246
metabolic diseases and whatnot.

00:39:47.286 --> 00:39:49.766
So please, everybody, check out my link.

00:39:50.987 --> 00:39:53.288
Reach out to Bobby Howard and get some

00:39:53.307 --> 00:39:54.969
more information to find out how your

00:39:55.009 --> 00:39:58.028
family can become donors or just be more

00:39:58.128 --> 00:39:58.630
educated.

00:39:58.889 --> 00:40:00.030
Can we get by with you?

00:40:00.070 --> 00:40:01.230
Do you have any upcoming events?

00:40:01.269 --> 00:40:02.911
And you just went you just had an

00:40:02.951 --> 00:40:03.731
event, didn't you?

00:40:04.420 --> 00:40:05.480
Yeah, we just, we just,

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.800
August is National Minority Donor Year

00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.561
this month.

00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.121
So we did a big celebration yesterday to

00:40:11.242 --> 00:40:11.641
kick it off.

00:40:11.661 --> 00:40:14.222
It was a great opportunity.

00:40:14.242 --> 00:40:15.182
You know, we brought in,

00:40:15.282 --> 00:40:17.882
our focus this week, not this week,

00:40:17.943 --> 00:40:20.884
this month is caregivers.

00:40:20.903 --> 00:40:25.545
You know, celebrating caregivers who,

00:40:25.905 --> 00:40:28.005
caregivers to those who receive organ

00:40:28.025 --> 00:40:28.786
transplants.

00:40:29.365 --> 00:40:33.007
and also those who care for family members

00:40:33.047 --> 00:40:35.048
who've donated who lost their life and

00:40:35.068 --> 00:40:37.351
they've been organ donors so we're

00:40:37.391 --> 00:40:40.291
celebrating this month with a lot of um

00:40:40.411 --> 00:40:42.733
events across the state not our own events

00:40:42.773 --> 00:40:44.875
just events that we've partnered with

00:40:44.914 --> 00:40:46.076
people across the state

00:40:46.896 --> 00:40:48.697
to raise awareness about organ, eye,

00:40:48.717 --> 00:40:51.842
and tissue donation, give people factual,

00:40:52.141 --> 00:40:54.824
correct information, answer questions,

00:40:55.686 --> 00:40:56.987
and give people the opportunity.

00:40:57.027 --> 00:40:59.670
If you haven't registered when you renewed

00:40:59.710 --> 00:41:01.411
your driver's license or received a new

00:41:01.552 --> 00:41:01.672
one,

00:41:02.092 --> 00:41:04.556
we have the ability to register you right

00:41:04.576 --> 00:41:05.436
there on the spot.

00:41:06.693 --> 00:41:07.434
Awesome.

00:41:07.614 --> 00:41:08.695
That is awesome.

00:41:09.376 --> 00:41:11.699
So we didn't ask this question,

00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.643
but if I have just gotten received a

00:41:15.682 --> 00:41:20.449
diagnosis that I have kidney failure,

00:41:20.489 --> 00:41:21.409
kidney disease.

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:23.201
What's my next,

00:41:23.260 --> 00:41:24.601
what's the first thing I need to do,

00:41:24.661 --> 00:41:25.181
Bobby?

00:41:25.222 --> 00:41:25.362
Well,

00:41:25.461 --> 00:41:27.603
it depends on what stage your diagnosis

00:41:27.623 --> 00:41:27.664
is.

00:41:27.684 --> 00:41:28.744
Okay.

00:41:28.824 --> 00:41:29.965
Okay.

00:41:30.065 --> 00:41:32.708
So if your diagnosis, let's say stage one,

00:41:33.527 --> 00:41:35.869
then you need to make sure you're

00:41:35.909 --> 00:41:37.530
following all the instructions.

00:41:37.550 --> 00:41:39.793
That's changing your diet,

00:41:39.813 --> 00:41:41.034
drinking more water.

00:41:41.293 --> 00:41:43.695
If there are things you need to eliminate

00:41:43.876 --> 00:41:44.496
out of your diet,

00:41:44.516 --> 00:41:45.597
you need to eliminate them.

00:41:46.398 --> 00:41:48.541
And when I share with people I've had

00:41:48.581 --> 00:41:51.543
my transplant for so many over three

00:41:51.563 --> 00:41:52.885
decades now, they say,

00:41:52.905 --> 00:41:53.586
how did you do it?

00:41:54.248 --> 00:41:55.849
And I tell them that I followed my

00:41:55.889 --> 00:41:56.530
diet.

00:41:56.550 --> 00:41:59.773
I never stopped basically what I call the

00:41:59.813 --> 00:42:01.815
kidney diet of things that I couldn't

00:42:01.856 --> 00:42:02.257
have.

00:42:02.838 --> 00:42:04.418
I just stopped eating them all together.

00:42:05.219 --> 00:42:07.380
and stayed with it you know drinking

00:42:07.521 --> 00:42:09.521
plenty of water and following take my

00:42:09.561 --> 00:42:12.583
medication um on time and and here's the

00:42:12.663 --> 00:42:15.204
interesting uh statistic i've been with

00:42:15.244 --> 00:42:18.326
lifelink almost thirty two years i've only

00:42:18.385 --> 00:42:22.648
had six seven seven six days that i've

00:42:22.668 --> 00:42:25.489
had to be in six and they weren't

00:42:25.509 --> 00:42:27.610
related to your kidneys nope nope

00:42:29.605 --> 00:42:31.686
Just other little things that pop up,

00:42:31.967 --> 00:42:34.289
but it was nothing kidney related.

00:42:34.389 --> 00:42:37.072
So, you know, it's truly been a blessing.

00:42:37.411 --> 00:42:37.972
And, you know,

00:42:38.112 --> 00:42:40.315
I share with people all the time is

00:42:40.355 --> 00:42:42.978
that I look at things in phases that

00:42:43.398 --> 00:42:44.579
I had a job to do.

00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:46.760
My physicians had a job to do and

00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:47.942
God had a job to do.

00:42:48.242 --> 00:42:49.503
If we all work together,

00:42:49.784 --> 00:42:50.905
everything was going to take care of

00:42:50.965 --> 00:42:51.326
itself.

00:42:51.585 --> 00:42:52.847
But I was going to do my part.

00:42:52.887 --> 00:42:53.907
That's all I can control.

00:42:53.927 --> 00:42:54.809
So I'm not doing my part.

00:42:55.478 --> 00:42:58.820
yes amen i love it you know so

00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:00.501
that just helps me jump right into my

00:43:00.802 --> 00:43:03.364
love last question for the show how do

00:43:03.385 --> 00:43:04.826
you protect your mental health all the

00:43:04.846 --> 00:43:06.367
things that you're doing and the things

00:43:06.387 --> 00:43:08.128
that you've been through how do you

00:43:08.188 --> 00:43:09.570
maintain your mental wellness

00:43:10.048 --> 00:43:10.929
I got a therapist.

00:43:10.949 --> 00:43:17.034
No, that's right.

00:43:17.074 --> 00:43:17.215
Me too.

00:43:17.235 --> 00:43:17.594
I'll speed down.

00:43:17.614 --> 00:43:18.596
I got a therapist that I talk to

00:43:18.655 --> 00:43:20.016
once a month.

00:43:20.817 --> 00:43:23.840
But I truly believe in self-care as well.

00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:26.101
You know, I get facials once a month.

00:43:26.202 --> 00:43:29.623
I get massages once a month.

00:43:29.664 --> 00:43:30.045
You know,

00:43:30.304 --> 00:43:31.945
I take time to take care of me.

00:43:32.467 --> 00:43:32.867
And, you know,

00:43:32.927 --> 00:43:34.367
it's surprising when I tell a lot of

00:43:34.387 --> 00:43:35.568
my football friends, they say, oh,

00:43:35.588 --> 00:43:36.670
can you do this for me?

00:43:36.750 --> 00:43:37.610
And I take my nap.

00:43:38.010 --> 00:43:38.891
I take a nap every day.

00:43:41.344 --> 00:43:42.704
There is nothing wrong with naps.

00:43:44.346 --> 00:43:48.168
Naps are so underrated, like for real.

00:43:49.289 --> 00:43:51.010
And they said, wow, you know,

00:43:51.849 --> 00:43:53.030
you do all this for yourself.

00:43:53.070 --> 00:43:54.211
And I have a friend in Detroit.

00:43:54.512 --> 00:43:55.432
She said, one thing I'll tell you,

00:43:55.452 --> 00:43:56.914
she said, you take care of yourself.

00:43:57.173 --> 00:43:57.833
And I sure do.

00:43:58.414 --> 00:43:58.614
I said,

00:43:58.635 --> 00:43:59.936
because I'm the most important person to

00:43:59.956 --> 00:44:00.016
me.

00:44:00.036 --> 00:44:01.916
That's right.

00:44:02.016 --> 00:44:03.438
You've got one body.

00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:05.782
You got one body.

00:44:05.922 --> 00:44:07.501
You only get one body.

00:44:07.541 --> 00:44:09.382
You can get some other body parts,

00:44:09.782 --> 00:44:12.463
but you only get one body.

00:44:12.583 --> 00:44:15.324
And you come around on this big blue

00:44:15.364 --> 00:44:17.684
marble one time that we know of.

00:44:19.246 --> 00:44:21.007
So this is your vessel and you have

00:44:21.047 --> 00:44:25.367
to take care of it.

00:44:25.427 --> 00:44:25.728
Yes, ma'am.

00:44:25.748 --> 00:44:26.708
Hang out with your best friends, me,

00:44:26.728 --> 00:44:28.829
myself, and I, Jesus, the Holy Spirit,

00:44:28.869 --> 00:44:29.309
and the Lord.

00:44:29.349 --> 00:44:30.269
Y'all are good.

00:44:30.329 --> 00:44:31.349
You roll six deep.

00:44:35.315 --> 00:44:36.597
Thank you so very much, brother.

00:44:36.757 --> 00:44:38.018
I really appreciate you.

00:44:38.057 --> 00:44:40.840
You have enlightened me and I look forward

00:44:40.900 --> 00:44:43.121
to hearing some more of the great things

00:44:43.161 --> 00:44:44.663
that you guys will be doing throughout the

00:44:44.702 --> 00:44:45.384
rest of the year.

00:44:45.423 --> 00:44:47.605
So make sure you come back to our

00:44:47.664 --> 00:44:51.688
love seat as our podcast listeners say,

00:44:52.248 --> 00:44:54.329
our love seat and like what Karen says

00:44:54.409 --> 00:44:55.030
all the time.

00:44:55.798 --> 00:44:58.862
You have to give love from your saucer

00:44:58.981 --> 00:44:59.842
and not your cup.

00:45:00.202 --> 00:45:01.684
And I thank you for sharing,

00:45:01.744 --> 00:45:02.746
being transparent,

00:45:03.045 --> 00:45:04.447
and talking about what you do to take

00:45:04.467 --> 00:45:06.028
care of yourself because those are the

00:45:06.108 --> 00:45:08.311
nuggets we want to leave to our listeners

00:45:08.650 --> 00:45:09.811
because they're not alone.

00:45:10.132 --> 00:45:11.673
You don't have to suffer in silence.

00:45:11.954 --> 00:45:13.974
there are resources and support out there

00:45:14.034 --> 00:45:15.414
for you so thank you brother for all

00:45:15.434 --> 00:45:18.695
that you do you're welcome and thank you

00:45:18.715 --> 00:45:19.956
guys for having me truly enjoy it it

00:45:19.976 --> 00:45:22.876
has been it has been delightful um to

00:45:22.936 --> 00:45:25.257
our listeners we want to remind you to

00:45:25.297 --> 00:45:27.177
subscribe to conversations with karen and

00:45:27.217 --> 00:45:30.298
kat on youtube facebook ig and wherever

00:45:30.338 --> 00:45:33.900
you get your podcast remember that you are

00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.740
a part of the conversation thank you for

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.601
joining us on this episode of

00:45:38.661 --> 00:45:40.722
conversations with karen and kat

00:45:41.106 --> 00:45:41.268
Well,

00:45:41.307 --> 00:45:42.675
we are impacting the world one

00:45:42.695 --> 00:45:43.922
conversation at a time.